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The use of profanity
At Passion 2007, John Piper, theologian and pastor extraordinaire got “down and dirty” with collegians about applying the radical words of Christ to real-life living. What he actually said was there is a siginificant difference in God disciplining his children and saying that “he kicks our asses.”
Had I been there, I most assuredly would have sat up and listened more raptly. In all the times I’ve heard Piper speak, both in person and podcast, I’ve never even had a hint that he knew any profanity, much less knew how to use it. I’m reminded of all Star Trek episode in a planetary gangster society where Spock had to cuss to fit in and just couldn’t get it right.
But here is Piper’s online apology. And here is Wayne Gruden’s response.Before you think this is much ado about nothing, in Gruden’s response, there is a profound and eloquent explanation of why profanity and lesser language can detract from a beleiver’s witness that is simply a must read. It’s definitely something to chew on.
Then I would point you to Tim Challie’s blog entry on the whole matter.
After all that reading, I’d be interested in knowing how it made you think, reflect, and where you might stand on things. That means you lurkers too, darn it!
what the ?@!# ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!! I can’t use @#!$ cuss words as a @#(*ing Christian? The NERVE!
In my opinion, the only thing Piper did wrong was that he should’ve been smarter. Usually profanities are classified into three main areas: obscenity, vulgarity, and blasphemy. The latter, it is not debatable, is a sin. The appropriateness of other two, it could be argued, may depend upon the situation, although I do believe that the choice to use them will always reflect, in others’ eyes, upon one’s character. Piper states that he was using the term for strategic “tittilation” to keep the attention of his audience. He may have been wrong on two counts: 1) that he believed a… Read more »
I must first say that I am thoroughly impressed with the manner of which this issue is being discussed-in the fact that Piper’s character was not harshly judged because of the profanity he used and then proceeding with downgrading his christian status within certain minds……As would have happened in other venues. I must say I also disagree with Tim ,though. I do not think that what comes out of your mouth is always evident of what is in your heart.Just as your actions may be a sin-but not a true depiction of your heart,as a christian,so may your speak be… Read more »
this one has always been kind of hard for me, personally. i was raised around what is considered by most to be very vulgar language. it was part of everyday life – and to this day i have never found it offensive. i certainly don’t fault piper for using profanity, and don’t really agree that it sheds any light on the condition of his heart – his life should be proof enough of that. although, all sin, and he is no different than any other man; however, i do my best to stir clear of profanity simply out of respect… Read more »
i’m reminded of tony campolo… one of the things he is most passionate about is poverty, especially its effect on children around the world. he often will begin a speech thusly: “i have three things I’d like to say today. first, while you were sleeping last night, 30,000 kids died of starvation or diseases related to malnutrition. second, most of you don’t give a sh*t. what’s worse is that you’re more upset with the fact that i said sh*t than the fact that 30,000 kids died last night.” in that context, it certainly makes a person stop dead in his… Read more »
I’ve been thinking a lot about this lately as part of my bigger rumination about how to be culturally relevant while separate. Understand, that I am a reforming Pharisee with a major in legalism (and did I mention a first born child of a Southern Baptist minister?) raised in a house where we couldn’t say “shut up” (my mother just shivered somewhere and has no idea why). So maybe I should recuse myself from this discussion. It seems like my friends lately fall in one of two camps and I find myself somewhere between the two. On one side I… Read more »
Great comments so far! Amy, I am holding you directly responsible if coffee stains my LCD. I’m also reminded of Paul’s words regarding there are some things that while being permissible, are not beneficial. However, I don’t know if profanity or being “profane” is even permissible for the Christ follower who is called to be holy before he’s called to be hip. I’m certainly not above this issue, and I think that Christ is calling His bride in our day to truly follow Him rather than seeking to blend. The Father can and does use all things, working together, for… Read more »
during the PMRC hearings about whether music should have an explicit lyrics label. Dee Snider made a very profound statement. if you disregard blasphemy… profanity has nothing to do with Christianity. It is a decision we make as a person whether to use or not to use profanity. the decision not to use blasphemy is made for us by Christ. This is not a thin line to walk either, everyone who believes knows the difference.
What is really interesting to me is that I’m not at all sure that this would have caused a stir at all in a UK context. Our view as to what constitutes profane language is very cultural. I’m aware that there are certain words and phrases that Christians would or might use here in England, that would cause deep offence in the US and vice versa.
I’m with Richard (no.9) – being UK based, I don’t think the particular word is that offensive, although I wouldn’t normally expect to hear it in church, a conference or convention might be a different thing. More broadly, though is not which words we find offensive and which not – or is it? Four-letter words are often classed as ‘Anglo-Saxon’ (whether that is accurate or not I don’t know) and certainly the history of about 1000 years ago led to a (I believe) mostly French or French-speaking ruling class and a downtrodden underclass of ‘native’ Saxons (I think – my… Read more »
Richard and Nodrog, I’m especially intrigued by the whole concept of culturally-defined profanity. It was not something I had initially considered when I was sifting through the entry. I think in larger circles that the use of the tongue is, indeed, a flaming fire that can destroy forests and we must learn to manage it as we do a horse with a bit in his mouth. It’s not just those ever-so-familiar 4-letters that we should limit to the definition of “profane.” I think conversational obscenity can be classified as much more than that. We can have a profane dialogue without… Read more »
by far a head-scratcher on the 5 letter “cuss” words. However the 7 letter one that “legitimately” refers to an illegitimate child break the 4-letter rule. what is profane? is there really a clean word for “poop?” I prefer not to use words that have been deemed culturally as profane. I also don’t want my children to hear them. But what’s been convicting to me lately is that I say “crap” all the time, but jump on my children when they say it. HMMMMM! I’m with you Jeff, is there a difference in the substitution, but like Dean – should… Read more »
Jeff, Very short response…it’s not necessarily about the number of letters, but about syllables. Most curses are short and explosive words. It gives them power. One of the most offensive things about them (other than to what they refer) is the emotive power they carry. Words of three syllables or more are just to unweildly for cursing. I’m not even sure someone could shout out a three-syllable-monster upon stubbing a toe or hitting a thumb with a hammer. The brain may only have time for the quickest, most powerful emotive word at hand. Now that I think about it, that… Read more »
Damn! That’s deep.
[…] that John Piper, theologian par excellent, used “profanity” in a message at Passion 07. I wrote about it here. Then there’s the “cussin’ pastor,” Mark Driscoll who leads Mars Hill […]
I never had a problem with profanity until I met Carolyn (talk about Miss Potty Mouth, in high school) and when Jeff was on my staff at FBC Garland!
Saint Kevin
I never had a problem with it either until then… Hmmm. Thanks for reminding me. 😉
I just came upon your blog even though the event happened almost 2 years ago. My three sons and I were at the breakout session when Dr. Piper said the phrase. Although some folks not at the conference have referred to it as profanity, there is no question in my mind that it clearly wasn’t. Piper was talking about how severely God handles you and me depending on whether or not we are responsive to the Holy Spirit’s leading. When you and I are walking “in the Spirit” it only takes gentle corrections to keep a disciple on path. But… Read more »